Dr. Shubha Tole on Understanding the Brain's Inner Workings
Episode #005
Introduction
Embarking on a journey through the intricacies of the human brain, the work of renowned neuroscientist, Dr. Shubha Tole, stands as a beacon of innovation and discovery in the field of neuroscience. With an academic foundation laid at the prestigious St. Xavier’s College, Mumbai, followed by advanced degrees from the California Institute of Technology (Caltech) for her MS and Ph.D., and further honing her expertise with a Post-Doc at the University of Chicago, Shubha’s journey from Mumbai to the forefront of neuroscience research is as fascinating as it is inspiring.
Her career, marked by a transition across continents—from the bustling streets of Mumbai to the innovative corridors of Pasadena and Chicago—encapsulates not just a geographical shift but a monumental leap in scientific training and cultural adaptation. In the face of such challenges, Shubha’s passion for unraveling the mysteries of the brain never wavered. Her research, deeply rooted in understanding mammalian brain development, has significantly advanced our knowledge of how the brain's complex structures and functions come into being.
Shubha’s work is particularly noted for its exploration of the hippocampus, a critical area of the brain involved in memory formation, where she discovered a neuron-astrocyte cell fate switch. This finding has profound implications for understanding memory and has the potential to revolutionize treatments for neurological disorders such as Alzheimer's disease. Additionally, her studies on the Lhx2 gene have shed light on its pivotal role in brain development, offering insights into neurodevelopmental disorders and paving the way for new therapeutic strategies.
As a mentor and role model, Shubha has been a guiding light for many young scientists, especially women, aspiring to carve their niche in the world of neuroscience. Her journey is a testament to the power of perseverance, intellectual curiosity, and the relentless pursuit of knowledge. Over the course of our conversation, we delve into the defining moments and influences of Shubha’s career, her contributions to neuroscience, and the potential future directions of her research.
Currently, Shubha serves as a distinguished Principal Investigator at the Tata Institute of Fundamental Research (TIFR) in Mumbai, one of India's premier research institutes. At TIFR, she continues to lead groundbreaking research in neuroscience, focusing on the development of the mammalian brain, with an emphasis on understanding the genetic and molecular mechanisms that underpin brain development and function. She also serves as Dean of Graduate Studies at TIFR.
Throughout her illustrious career, Shubha has been the recipient of numerous prestigious awards and honours, reflecting her significant contributions to the field of neuroscience. Among these accolades, she has been honored with:
The Shanti Swarup Bhatnagar Prize for Science and Technology, in the Biological Sciences discipline, for her work in 2010.
Infosys Prize in Life Sciences for her significant contributions to our understanding of how the brain's structure and circuitry are formed in the embryo in 2014.
Through her story, we explore not only the scientific intricacies of brain development but also the human spirit's capacity to drive forward the boundaries of what we know about ourselves and the world around us.
Listen Now
Listen to the Podcast: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music
Watch Now
Connect with Us
Follow with Shubha on X: https://twitter.com/shubhatole
Shubha’s Lab at TIFR: https://www.stolelab.co.in/
Follow Vignesh on X: https://twitter.com/hrorq
Connect with Vignesh on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hrorq/
Follow us on X: https://twitter.com/IndxEcon
Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/indxecon/
Learn more about ContraMinds Labs: https://www.contraminds.com
Selected Links
Mentorship comes from many sources
by Shubha Tole, Nature Cell Biology (2018)
California Institute of Technology
Richard Feynman: The Pleasure of Finding Things Out (BBC, 1981)
The Blind Watchmaker
by Richard Dawkins
Cosmos: A Personal Voyage (Carl Sagan)
Constitutive activation of canonical Wnt signaling disrupts choroid plexus epithelial fate
by Arpan Parichha, Varun Suresh, et al (at Commun 13, 633 (2022).)
The View from the Cheap Seats
by Neil Gaiman
The Robot Series
by Isaac Asimov
“The Freedoms We Give Up”
Talk by Dr. Shubha Tole
Jonathan Livingston Seagull
by Richard Bach
Time Stamps
00:00 - 01:00 - Cold Open
01:01 - 01:17 - Theme
01:18 - 04:52 - Early Life and Interest in Neuroscience
04:53 - 09:33 - On Children Carrying their Parents’ Aspirations
09:34 - 15:11 - Moving to Pasadena in 1988 for Graduate Studies at Caltech
15:12 - 19:38 - On Disagreement and Collaboration
19:39 - 23:59 - The Influence of Role Models and Mentors
24:00 - 28:24 - Shubha’s Primer on Mammalian Brain Development
28:25 - 36:35 - On wonder and why we don’t need a Blind Watchmaker-type hypothesis
36:36 - 38:57 - Suitable Metaphors for Understanding the Brain
38:58 - 42:43 - On a Culture that Respects and Celebrates Science in India
42:44 - 49:54 - Research Work taking place at Shubha’s Lab at TIFR
49:55 - 52:44 - Applying research work from Shubha’s Lab for Gene Repair Techniques
52:45 - 57:57 - Translating Research into Real-World Interventions
57:58 - 01:02:21 - On Human Behaviour
01:02:22 - 01:05:56 - On Science Fiction
01:05:57 - 01:14:31 - Assessing the Current State of Neuroscience Research in India
01:14:31 - 01:17:17 - Comparing Human Intelligence and Computational Intelligence
01:17:18 - 01:20:43 - On whether the Mind is a real thing or not
01:20:44 - 01:24:05 - On LLMs and Morality
01:24:06 - 01:26:09 - Advice for Young People
01:26:10 - 01:31:41 - Advice to Young Women
01:31:42 - 01:36:20 - Rapid Fire Section
Interesting Ideas
“I think it’s kind of tragic that at the age of sixteen, one should be encouraged to think that a professional track is the only way to grow you curiosity and learning. I think it’s tragic and as a country we’ve got to do something about it.”
“The training of Physics allows them (Shubha’s colleagues who work in Physics) a certain set of mental tools which they can then apply to anything.”
“I think it’s appalling that students are allowed to drop math after tenth standard. It shortchanges your education in tremendous ways.”
“This is something I tell students now: a PhD takes five years. Why does it take five years? Because you’re doing something that’s really hard and a lot of it is training your mind in ways that it’s not been trained before.”
“One amazing thing about lab (research) culture in the United States or professional culture everywhere, which our students in India don’t experience, is what professionalism actually means.”
“I learnt to separate the personal from the professional. We don’t do this in India, even in our PhD labs.”
“Each culture’s strengths are also it’s weaknesses.”
“Our culture values education, values intellectual pursuit - this is why everybody gets a bachelor’s degree as far as possible. After that parents are willing to support their child for their Masters and PhD. However, this is not the case in many western countries.”
“In the US- it’s not an intellectual society. To be a rocket scientist, or a nerd, or a geek, has negative connotations. What’s the strength in that? All professions are respected.”
“Over time, I realised that you can learn from anybody. In fact, they don’t have to be older than you or more senior than you- in fact, they don’t even have to be your peers.”
“In my lab at TIFR, we’re on first name terms. Why? Because if you can’t call me by my first name, how’re you going to tell me that you disagree with me?”
“Development simply means what happens when one cell becomes an entire organism. Brain Development or Neurodevelopment focuses on how the brain or the Central Nervous System is formed from a simple sheet of cells.”
“Size of the cortex grows, but the patterning, making- which structure is going to form where- happens when they’re (mammals) all tiny embryos.”
“Science. It’s not perfect. It’s simply what we have.”
“Math did not need a maker, why do you think puny, human brains would need one?”
“Biology is actually quite a messy system. It’s not clean, it’s not elegant.”
“We are one hacked up, patched up, genome - the more biology you study, the more terrified you become.”
“The Hippocampus is the recorder of memory.”
“You start a project by asking a very precise question.”
“Sci-Fi is the way human creativity lays out things the way they’re possible and then science and technology comes along and makes some of them possible.”
“How a culture treats its youngest people is really a measure of it (culture).”
“Nobody has any idea on the circuitry of morality.”
“Don’t limit yourself. Your constraints are there to be flattened. Keep the fire alive.”
“Have the courage to have a dream.”
Thank you so much for taking the time to visit The Inductive Economy.
Your support and curiosity mean the world to us. If you've found value in what you've read and want to stay updated with our latest insights and discussions, we warmly invite you to subscribe to our Substack. This way, you'll never miss out on our newest explorations and revelations.
Moreover, for an even deeper dive into the realms of science and technology, follow us on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.
At The Inductive Economy, we're on a mission to craft India's premier Science and Technology Podcast, bringing you cutting-edge discussions, expert interviews, and much more.
Join us on this journey to illuminate minds and inspire innovation. Together, let's build a community passionate about pushing the boundaries of knowledge and discovery.